MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber appeared on NY1’s Mornings on 1 on March 26, 2025 with Pat Kiernan and Jamie Stelter to discuss congestion relief, subway safety, and other transportation issues.
A transcript of the interview appears below.
Pat Kiernan: It has been nearly three months since the congestion pricing toll went into effect. The MTA says all the numbers have been headed in the right direction, not only financially, but also in terms of the traffic patterns. The MTA says it collected $2 million more than projected last month. In total, the tolls have brought in $78 million. Another thing we've been watching closely, crime on the subway, trending down. Overall, crime down 20% since the start of the year. The MTA notes that ridership is up. The Trump Administration is still making a lot of noise about this, not convinced that crime is down sufficiently. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy standing by his push to get rid of congestion pricing, ramping up criticism of the MTA. Last night on social media, he said the transit authority was horribly run. He said rampant crime has been scaring riders away. MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber with us this morning. We are getting a different picture of the subway system from Washington than what you have been saying. What accounts for that disparity?
Janno Lieber: Well, we're a fact-based organization, so we'll just stick to the facts and hope that eventually they want to talk about what's really going on. There's been enormous progress on subway crime. Broadly speaking, as you said, 20% down this year versus last year, 40% down versus the same time right before COVID back in 2020. But there's no question that some of our riders, many of our riders, are still concerned and alarmed by some of the high-profile crimes. So, we're pushing back. The thing that I think Duffy is missing is that the NYPD is the law enforcement organization responsible for the subways and doing a hell of a job. Governor Hochul’s invested a lot of money in putting more cops on trains, especially in the overnight. Commissioner Jessica Tisch doing a fantastic job pushing on subway safety. And I don't understand why the allegedly pro cop, pro safety administration in Washington, would be going after the NYPD. That's what they're doing,
Kiernan: Isn't it because Duffy is trying to muddle things up, so that that if they are denied the opportunity to shut down congestion pricing, they've got some other issue that they've brought into the spotlight to say, well, well, okay, so the judge says we can't shut down congestion pricing, but because the subways are unsafe, we're going to try to yank federal funding, by that means?
Lieber: It could be, it could be, but numbers don't lie. I mean, you got to, he's not going after Miami, where you are 28 more times, more likely to be the victim of crime on their transit system than in New York. He's not attacking Minneapolis. He's not attacking Dallas, which have 10 to 30 times more probability of being the victim of crime on [the] transit system than in New York. Eventually, the judicial system, if they use crime as a pretext for punishing New York, eventually the judicial system will catch up with them. But as I said, we want to work with Washington. During the first Trump Administration, we actually had a lot of New York republicans working for, on behalf of the MTA, to make sure we were helped through COVID. We expect, you know, transit funding to be bipartisan. It always has been. These New York congressional republicans got to step up and help make sure we get our fair share.
Kiernan: Is that the mechanism, ultimately, to try to get away from these issue-by-issue discussions and just talk more broadly with Washington about how the transit system fuels the economy?
Lieber: Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely right. I mean, New York's regional economy is 10% of the national economy. Why would they mess with the transit system, which is what makes it possible for us to gather all these people together to create great economic value, this powerhouse of a regional economy? Why would they mess with that? I don't get it. Especially since the president is a New Yorker who owns property in the middle of that commercial business district. Obviously, there's a culture war raging, polarization, so on. We hope to get past it and start working on the real issues, which is transit is the thing that makes New York's economy possible. We got to fund it.
Kiernan: Okay, let's talk about congestion pricing. Again, yesterday, there was a headline that it's raised $2 million more than expected in the month of February. I wonder whether it's a mistake to focus so much on the money and not focus more on what the results are, either for increased ridership or for faster traffic.
Lieber: You're right, but we put out the data, and people have focused, you know, the press, to some extent, focuses on the money. We can't control that. But you're absolutely right, Pat. The results, the impacts of congestion pricing, the positive impacts, have been amazing. You know, there's much faster travel. People are getting in and out of the commercial, the central business district, they're saving 10, 20, 30 minutes a day. Surprisingly, the biggest supporters of congestion pricing, based on the polling, are people who drive to New York. Who would have thought it?
Kiernan: I was actually surprised that Josh Gottheimer was still beating the drum because I think he has to have heard from some of his New Jersey residents who are saying, you know, this is actually working.
Lieber: You know, Gridlock Gottheimer has one story, and he's sticking to it. I'm not paying attention to that. But what we are doing is continuing to look at the positive impacts. Most recently, we're seeing less noise complaints. And, interestingly, the principal concern that opponents express, which is not totally unreasonable, was there was going to be a lot more truck traffic on the on the Cross Bronx, on the Staten Island Expressway. Yesterday, there was a study that showed even that one side effect is not taking place. There's not more truck traffic on these surrounding highways. Everything is coming up roses for congestion pricing. Especially, the bigger issue is, can government do things that have benefits, promptly, that the public will recognize? Congestion pricing is one of the very few things where the public is saying, hey, they're real benefits. And it's changing hearts and minds really quick.
Kiernan: Somewhat a city issue more than an MTA issue, but have you heard problems at the border of congestion pricing, with street parking at 60th Street and some of the issues like that?
Lieber: No. That was one of the many fear factors that that people were focused on. Nothing like that. There is a study that's gonna be done of parking and traffic at the border for people on the west side and the east side, but so far, we've seen none of those effects.
Kiernan: Janno Lieber’s gonna stay with us. We'll continue our conversation after the break. We'll talk about a new initiative on bus lane enforcement, and we'll talk about the end of an era for the MetroCard.
Commercial break
Kiernan: MTA Chair Janno Lieber with us in studio this morning. You were up in Albany yesterday, making the pitch for whatever funding Albany can afford to give you, as we look at the MTA Capital Plan. What was your key message there?
Lieber: I think the reality is we've got a system that the legacy, from our foremothers and forefathers, that is worth a trillion and a half dollars, trillion with a “T”, and basic business school principals say you got to invest a certain amount of money in it. You cannot let an old industrial asset fall apart. We have power systems that are like the land the time forgot. My predecessors fixed some things, but they weren't able to get to everything. And we have a ticking time bomb right now in power, in structure, that's been subjected to water, salt, and chemicals for 100 years. Nobody's touched it. We got to invest in those things, or we're going to lose this great system. And everybody recognizes you got to do it. JP Morgan Chase did a study and found out that we probably have to invest twice as much as we are investing now, in order to get to a true state of good repair. I'm saying, I'm willing to make do with a slight increase, actually lower than the rate of inflation, but we have to start to make progress. We don't have any choice. And this is one area where the riders feel the impact if we neglect it immediately. That was the 2017 “Summer of Hell.” They [state legislature] delayed the Capital Program in 2015, and a year and a half later, the system literally fell apart around us. So do not delay it. I gotta say: Governor, legislative leaders, I spoke to all of them yesterday. Everybody's on the same page. You know who else? The State Controller, who is usually pretty tight, tight fisted about money. He said our request is at the mid to low end of what is needed for the subway system. I'm glad that everyone in Albany thinks we got to deal with this.
Jamie Stelter: Well, that's good news. But where do we stand on fare evasion, because that also affects your bottom line. We've seen all different kinds of mechanisms being tested: the spikes, the sphere on the actual turnstiles. Are any of these working? Do we like them?
Lieber: We don’t look at it as which one is working. It’s a whole package of interventions. The biggest one is we're putting, you know, security guards at the gate, so people don't just pop open the fire exit gate, which they're not supposed to do, and have 10 people walk in.
Kiernan: I literally, yesterday, when I was in the station, a good group of people was standing…
Lieber: Waiting...
Kiernan: For two or three minutes, waiting for someone to come out that gate.
Lieber: That's the biggest problem we have. But here's the bottom line, all the interventions together that we're doing, testing out, have resulted in a 25% reduction in subway fare evasion over six months. So, we have made progress. The biggest progress we can make though, is that we've got a billion dollars in this next Capital Program to replace all of the turnstiles with these modern fare gates, like you see in Europe, full height, that are much more of a deterrent to fare evasion, that have sensors in them, that open and shut much more quickly. So, that’s what we’re relying on.
Kiernan: But doesn't the emergency exit stay in that scenario?
Lieber: But the way that those things are set up, at function, as emergency exit…
Kiernan: But you don't have to have the separate emergency exit anymore?
Lieber: And you can function and you also, you’ll have wide aisle gates that allow people with luggage, in wheelchairs, whatever, to get in and out, and it's much more preventative of people. You don't, it doesn't just stay open, like the current exit gate when its popped. Bottom line is we have to push back on fare evasion. It's not just an economic issue, although Jamie's right to raise it. It is a morale issue for New Yorkers. When people are on, you know, limited income, see somebody pop the gate and ten people walk in, they say, why should I be the sucker...
Stelter: Why should I pay?
Lieber: Who’s paying? And that is like destroying morale for New Yorkers. We all rely on everybody playing by the same rules in the public space. We gotta fix it.
Kiernan: Okay, last thing. You get your MetroCard there.
Lieber: Yeah.
Kiernan: Until the end of the year, the MetroCard will be offered for sale.
Lieber: Yes.
Kiernan: But it's on its way out.
Lieber: Yeah.
Kiernan: Should anybody be sad about that?
Lieber: Well, I mean, look, we're all, we all, you know, nostalgia. My son said to me, you can't take away the MetroCard – it’s iconic! Yeah, it's iconic. But it has outlived its usefulness. The OMNY system, most of which is people using their credit cards and, you know, Apple Pay and payment on their phones. But the OMNY system allows us to give people automatic discount. You don't have a person, a poor person or a low-income person, have to decide, how much am I gonna ride? Should I buy a weekly? Should I buy monthly? The MTA is making money for people making bad decisions and not fully utilizing monthlies and weeklies. I want to put an end to that. OMNY gives people automatic discounts, and now we can have like frequent flyer programs and other discounts that automatically give people a better deal. That's the way to go.
Kiernan: Can I have your MetroCard?
Lieber: Only for a second.
Kiernan: I'm not keeping it. I don’t know how much money is on it. But, so, I've been tapping for the better part of the last year, I think.
Stelter: Yeah.
Kiernan: I was doing a MetroCard segment, and I'm so out of practice.
Stelter: Oh no…
Kiernan: That I swiped this way facing, instead of this way.
Stelter: Did they get that on tape?
Lieber: Alright, we're taking away your New York official credibility. But the other thing is, all the students are using OMNY now and Reduced Fare. Everybody who's on Reduced Fare, mostly seniors, got one of these in the mail, so that every group of New Yorkers now has access to OMNY. That's the reason that we said this is the moment.
Kiernan: Good to have you with us this morning. Thank you.
Lieber: You bet.